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OUR CHILDREN ARE IMPORTANT FOR OUR FUTURE
Interview with Rabbi Joel Levinson, temple Bet-El Patchogue, NY by Michael Dorfman
Tell me about your congregation:

The synagogue is a conservative synagogue and we have 275 families. The synagogue is over a hundred years old, the community. I have been here since September of 2000. We have an active sisterhood, we have active Youth programs, and we have Hebrew school. Adult clubs. More importantly we have community lead services. The rabbi doesn’t lead the services; we have people from the community who are able to go and lead the services, including some of the children. We do a full reading from the Torah,  full lanei, and we have different congregants as well who are able to read or chant from the Torah. I also teach both the children as well as adults on chant the Torah. We have a hesed committee, which is active, which visits people in nursing facilities in the area. We run different programs during the year so that the people that are in nursing facilities are not forgotten. They are made to feel that they are still part of the Jewish community even thought they are obviously living outside of their home and they can’t get around. We are very proud of our community. We participate in various interfaith services within the community. For Thanksgiving we rotate between churches and synagogues, we have communal services, we are active within the Chamber of Commerce and a whole host of other areas. It’s a wonderful warm synagogue and I’m proud and privilieged to be the spiritual leader of this synagogue.

Education…Hebrew school.

The Hebrew school here goes through the seventh grade; it goes from primary, the little ones, through the seventh grade. We teach the children to be comfortable in leading services, to be able to go and do Daf Torah, with some of them who have more advanced abilities we teach them how to la-in, how to chant Torah. This school has about fifty children in it. The teachers have been here a long time, so we have a very experienced and dedicated staff of teachers. (Not volunteer, but paid.) The Hebrew school meets Sundays and Tuesdays for children from halaf on up. If the children are in the primary, then they would meet only on Sundays.

Growth

Our community has been growing; we have put on in this past year about 14 new family members. We have been growing, but you lose members to Florida, you lose some of the older ones who are niftah , who die. But we still maintain our numbers and we have been growing, so I am very pleased with the progress of the synagogue.

Social activities

We have a youth group, which meets just about every Sunday here at the temple and then they do various other projects as well. For instance, this past Sunday they went bowling, they do other things also. This is basically for children from 4th fifth grade on up. (ages 9-10 on up.

Russian speaking members?

We had one member who was originally from Russia. He was 93 when he passed away and he was here since before WWII. I am not aware that there is a Russian Jewish community in Patchogue. If you can tell me how to reach them, I would be happy to. We advertise all our events in all the various newspapers and even the Jewish ones.

Of our 275 families we have about 125 on an e-mail list.

Outreach program? For poor families, families in need?

The outreach we do food drives, for various groups, a lot of the food we raise we donate through FEGS - a UJ supported organization in Yaphank and in Hauppauge and Commack area. We donate food , clothing.

Ethnic or religion?

I think that it is not a matter of reconciling. I think that you have to be open, because I’m sure that I have congregants within whose religious practices are not the same practices that I would want to see. Yet they are made to feel comfortable here. We have various cultural events, social events. There isn’t a litmus test to say to someone how religious are you? And then if you are that religious you can come in. I would hope that they would find that there would be eventually a melding of both religious and abuhave of the religion and the ethnicity and that kind of philosophy of it.

I think to some extent the Russian view of the ethnicity may be changing a little bit, because where they came from all they had to hold onto was that they were Jewish. They weren’t able to practice a lot of it. To practice was putting yourself at a huge risk. To practice Judaism, twenty- thirty years ago in Russia this was a danger to them, so what they had to hold onto was the ethnicity of it. It’s been that way for a long time. I think that you certainly see that with the sons and daughters of the Russian immigrants, the families that they are probably a little bit more involved.

Face contradiction of religion and ethnics….

If all they want to do is participate in ethnic type events, that is fine. To me that is a start, because if they are not even going to come into the front door, okay, then you are going to have a problem. I think there is a certain attractiveness once you get beyond the front door. Once you are coming in to the house, if you are just coming in for the cultural, at some point or another, some of it hopefully rubs off-if nothing else than their curiosity is piqued. So they say I want to know more. That’s the basis you have to go on. I can’t say a prayer to have someone change over night and I don’t want that to happen, it needs to come from within them. I believe that in the ethnicity and I also believe in what they call in Yiddish the pinta le yid. Within side of us there is a seed, a kernel, and it’s not just ethnicity, it’s called Yiddish kite. Now whether Yiddishkite is cultural or whether it is religion, is how that little kernel is nurtured. And I think that you have an opportunity, as long as someone is coming in for one reason or another, that I have to see that as an opportunity to dialogue with people. To have them feel welcome. After that, then you see what happens.

Loosing the Youth

I think that all of Judaism has that problem. It’s not just us, In Erets Israel you have that problem too. They are raised a certain way and then even then the kholnim it still becomes different. They go to Greece, they go to Turkey or Tibet, I think you have the same thing here. What we try to do is remain in contact with them, involve them, silly things like putting them on the e-mail, having to send things at Hanukah to remind them, to invite them back on their bar and bat mitzvahs. You can’t force them, because that doesn’t work. I think that one of the thing that I’m pushing is for more of our children to go to Israel. To have that trip there. I think that probably is the greatest connection to hold them. The other thing that if you work with the children, if you can get them to be involved, before they turn 15, 16, 18. Before then and if the younger and they are used to coming to a shull, if they are used to being involved it, then you stand a greater chance later on of dealing with the problem a little bit better.

Some children stay in school after their bar mitzvah and some don’t. About half stay involved.

Older bar mitzvahs are not usual, our congregation is a bit more traditional, so that the older people, the older women, even though we are fully egalitarian will still feel uncomfortable with that.

Egalitarian?

Egalitarian in the US means that men and women are counted in the minion, equally, and that men and women can read the Torah, can lead services, can be a Baal tfila, bal cure. Within the United States conservative movement, some of them do not have that, they will count women in the minion, but they won’t let a women read for a man.

This is determined by minhat makom also, in connection with the rabbi. When I came here that was the minhat makom (local custom) and I agree with that. And I encourage it. That little redhead girl standing out there (in the hall)… reads to Torah for us. She was Bat mitzva at age twelve. December 6th was my anniversary; I sat down (it was vacation) the only chance I get to sit with my wife. The president was out ill that day. She played Rabbi. She stood up there; she had the courage to be able to say I’m going to do it. She made sure the people were on the correct page, she gave the devar a Torah. A younger girl played the role of president, made sure that the even younger children, when we have the small Sifrah Torah, the small soft ones, made sure that they came up alzaza Torah. We have children who are able to feel that comfortable with it. These are the kind of children that I am not worried about moving off. That’s egalitarian, when you can have men and women doing it, doing everything that’s done within the synagogue on an equal basis. Some of the other ones, depending on where you are, there are some congregations where most of the kehila is very old and they do not want that. Mikveh for the woman becomes a major thing. It’s not a little thing; it’s a big thing.

Assimilation…

Yes we have inter-married couples. One of the things we do is to make sure that they are welcome. I have run classes for the inter-married, because I think issues they face is different than when both parties are Jewish. >From a Halakha stand point we follow it’s after the mother. Which is afdalaha. If the mother is not Jewish what we do is that make sure that the children are converted in a timely manner. Which is important. Above and beyond that, I meet with them and I’ve done this a couple of times, where we have classes, because the spouse that’s not Jewish is paying for their child to come here and has given up something of themselves. They have said that they are not going to follow their religion; they have agreed to let their child follow our religion. I think you have to be open with them, welcoming. They need things explained, they need a tour of the synagogue. They need to see what’s going on, so that when they bring their children to shull, they can be comfortable. Not to feel that they are strangers here or out casts. I am not going to give then an alia. Because they are not going to say a shebokh a borum me kol a mim….alright…and you’re not Jewish. But by the same token….at a child’s Bar or Bat mitzvah, (not giur). If they are not Jewish then you are not going to give them an alia le Torah.

Assimilation is a problem everywhere it is not unique to this area.

You deal with it by doing several things, by having a strong background to begin with. Also by us having classes. And you deal with it by the parents. If you are depending on the rabbi or the shull, to save your child, from getting assimilated, then you have already lost. Because if it doesn’t come from the home first. Then nothing is going to happen. Home is important and the parent is the one that is going to have to bring the children here. This isn’t a situation where shull is a block or two away. 99% of the people drive to shull. They don’t live right next door to us. So that means anytime the child has to go to school or shull the parent is the one who has to bring them. The parents don’t do it, or if the parents don’t have a Jewish home. We just about have lost the battle of assimilation. From our end of it sometimes we can motivate the kids and do more to help them. And to get them on a path in college where they may get involved in Hilell and things like that. But its very difficult if we teach them one thing and they go home and they don’t practice it at home. Then it’s taught in a vacuum. The child has a nice bar mitzvah and leads prayers, but a few years down the road he hasn’t gone to shull because his parents have not gone to shull….you know…. nitsim (miracles) is for Hanukah. It’s is not for, you know, those kind of things. It’s not going to happen.

Do you see a contradiction between fighting assimilation and welcoming interfaith marriages?

How do you reconcile it? I don’t perform or officiate at interfaith marriages. Once it is a fait accompli then I’m dealing with something that’s already happened. There is a difference between and some would say a contradiction, when I say that I won’t perform or officiate at an interfaith marriage, but once it’s done and now they have children, If I shut them out completely then the children will never have any Yiddish Kite. I have to deal with what I am faced with. And I am not going to violate Halakha, but by the same token if you have a Jewish woman who marries a non-Jewish man …the children are Jewish. It’s a much harder situation if both parents are Jewish because you have mixed signals in the home. To go to grandma and grandpas house and they’re not Jewish and they see a Christmas tree, it’s a lot more difficult, but that does not mean I have to give up on the children. Or to say to them …no,no,no… you don’t do that.

HALAHA? Place or teaching in congregation.

The Conservative movement considers that Halakha is extremely important and we tend to adhere to it. We follow it.

Driving to temple…?

They are going to be driving somewhere, but this is the same thing. >From Halakha I’m not going to tell them to stay home, knowing full well that they are not going to stay home. If they were going to stay home on Shabbat it wouldn’t be an issue. They have to drive and the conservative movement certainly ruled a long time ago, more than 40 years ago, that if you have to drive on Shabbat to go to shull, that it was okay. There is a reality that things changed. Halakha over time changes as well. What was not permited 40 years ago…Halakha would have said you couldn’t have a transplant, because it was experimental. Today, Halaha says its axiv to do that because you can save someone’s life. Pikuah nefish …. In this shull I’m more ada avtra. To me halaka takes a very significant role. Rabbi Gamliel used halaxa not to beat people with it but he always used halaxa to find a way to make it more acceptable to people. It’s easy to say asur, asur, asur but that’s not a Rabbi. I can tell a monkey anytime someone comes up to ask a question to tell him no you can’t do its not permitted. That’s not what halakha is about. It’s lo bashamaim (in the sky), it’s here that we are supposed to use halakha to make it better, not to just say no.

Anti-Semitism?

We deal with it here by having a very, very open and public role. We participate within the community. We are active members of the greater Patchogue community.

I think that the best way to deal with the…. There are certain people who are going to be anti-semitic, no matter what I do. But I think what you need to do is if we are tied into the community, if the world outside see us as part of their world and accepts us because of such things as we are members of the greater patchoque foundation, being involved in the ethics advisory committee at the hospital, by having a public image and being involved with the greater community. People look at that and don’t just see that as anti-Semitism but as an attack on their community as well. I think that is the greatest protection against anti-Semitism. When your neighbors….like the Danish saw the Jews as part of their community and stood up for them, that’s the same thing you need to develop here. By having a relationship with the community being part of it, then an attack on you becomes an attack on everyone.

Interfaith?

Yeah, there is a greater Patchogue Clergy Association that I am a member of. They have regularly scheduled meetings. Interestingly the issues that we face are the same, those of having to deal with congregants who are poor, of children skate boarding on private property, of trying to be part of the community, of scheduling events that are the same for all of us. We each have our own particular issues but by us being a part of their group there is a level of respect.

Interfaith services?

Yes, we’ve had the Catholic Church, from St Francis de Sales bought in people to have me speak to them, they were interested in talking about Passover and the seder. I’ve also had Boy Scout groups coming in after Thanksgiving, year after year. This was the first year they did not have it. From all of the different religious communities coming in here, walking in and seeing what a synagogue is and having someone explain to them a little about what Judaism is. Putting them in a sanctuary and letting them look and then having someone say what is this? What is this? It takes the mystique out of it; it is no longer frightening or unusual. We have had contact with the Lutheran Church, the Congregational Church, Methodist church. We have not had any contact with the Muslim groups, because there are none within the Patchogue community. There was talk about when we were talking about Thanksgiving but apparently at the time it seemed to most of the clergy that we should not include them. It seemed a bit too gratuitous to go outside of our Patchogue community and say can we have. It just seemed too gratuitous or too fashionable…one or the other.

Kosher Laws? NY State Law change?

This has not changed anything in our community because I am the misgiah kashrut here, I have to decide and I set the tone. For me there has been no change in kashrut. I am not the mashgiah for the Yarmish brothers, that is Rabbi Bill Berman. I’m the mashgiah kashrut for the Swan bakery here in Patchogue. I have mixed feeling about the change in the law, because I would prefer the system that that exists in New Jersey. In Jersey, the certificate says which organization it’s under, who is the Rabbi, or whether it’s Orthodox, Conservative, or reform. The reality now is that you have to know under whose hasgakha something is under, if it’s under one of the major organizations, that’s fine. It was that way even before this crises existed, you had people, whether it was myself or someone like Rabbi Berman, or people I never even heard of who were certifying restaurants as kosher. You have to go and inquire and find out who they are and ask! It takes a little bit of work. Some of my people go into Five Towns, some go to Great Neck, some go to Queens. My daughter lives in Queens, so when we plan to visit our child, my wife plans on including a visit to kosher deli. About 30-40% of my congregation follow the koshrut laws.

Anti Semitism vs anti-Israel?

I am very much into this, we have different people who are involved in different Israeli projects. I’m hoping to have some groups of people speak here about supporting Israel, about Zionism. My gut feeling is that the Muslim-Arab world figured out that they couldn’t destroy Israel through a war and they figured out that now that they have the Palestinians doing their little thing. They are letting someone else fight the war. This way they don’t get blood on their soil. What they have done is carried it out through into the Muslim communities through out the world. Israel was always a target. But now, they have understood or figured out that they have a little more power in other countries because of population. It’s frightening; I think that that from our standpoint we have to do several things. We have to stay in touch with our elected officials to make sure that they know that we vote, that we donate money, that we campaign, that we have a voice that we need to be heard. Remind them that Israel is the only Democratic country in that area. We are defending Saudi Arabia, where a woman could not go out dressed as women do here without taking grief. We are willing to die for them; there is something wrong there. They are terrorists that attacked us, terrorists who have blown up things not just in Israel, but in Russia the Chechen rebels. They are not Christian; they are Muslim, the ones that have caused all this chaos. This should not be permitted. Unfortunately, it’s not just an attack on Israel; they use it as an excuse. You have some that definitely hate Israel and I think that they feel that if the can destroy Israel they can hurt us as well.

There was an article in the New York Times about a year and a half ago, after 9/11. It was in the Sunday Times, written by a non-Jew, who came out and said that - yes -- this is a religious war. No one wants to say that because it doesn’t sound nice. Truth doesn’t have to sound nice. I don’t think that all Muslims want to be in a religious war, I don’t think the entire Muslim world wants to be suicide bombers, or want to kill people. But you have a sufficient number of them and the leaders of their world do not have the guts to say this is wrong. I can interpret the Torah any which way I want, just a s any iman can interpret the Koran in anyway he wants. Anything written and be twisted to suit you, to say its okay to do something. That is what they are doing and I think that they have to be challenged on it. And until the Moderate people speak up, then the radicals will have their way, their say.

Has Zionism changed or is it dead?

The original notion of Zionism was that you had to make alia and if you did not make alia  you could not be a Zionist. I think that as much as we need Israel to survive Israel needs  also. We need communities in both areas, we need communities that are strong, that support one another. I think that we need to support them economically, politically and I think that is where the zionut is going to be. It’s not going to be just making alia, and to be a xalutz and work in the field. That’s not going to happen.

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